Masters of the Air: Episode Discussion 5

[muccamukk]

In which we (hopefully) welcome directors Anna Boden & Ryan Fleck!

Rules:

1. Don't be a dick. Specifically (but not limited to):


1. Not liking something is fine, and negative comments are fine. Please do not directly tell other participants why the thing they like is bad or that they are bad for liking it.


2. Kink shaming will be deleted.


3. Racism, homophobia, transphobia, antisemitism, misogyny, etc will be deleted.


2. Discussing material from the books is fine, but if you're going to discuss something that happens in future episodes, or the fate of historical characters, please put it under a cut and title the comment Book spoilers! or something similar.


3. Likewise, wanting to treat the show as a self-contained unit and not engage with the books/history is perfectly valid.

How to do an in-comment spoiler cut:
<details><summary>Describe what you're spoiling here</summary>All the spoilers go in this part.</details>

Comments

[muccamukk]

I quite liked that one. We focused on a small enough group, and I can tell Rosie and Egan apart by their eyebrows, so that worked. Plus this mission is pretty famous, so I knew what was happening anyway. Some nice bits of characterisation like Egan trading out the jacket.

The subplot with Bubbles and Croz was appropriately gutting, ditto Rosie's ship being the only survivor.

The music in the key of "well, we're fucked" as they were leaving worked for me.

I was thinking the other day that the only NCOs we're really gotten to know are Lemmons, and the two guys on the run last episode, who I'm not sure we'll see again. HBO War shows tend to be a lot more about EMs and NCOs, at least as much if not more than officers, so this show's a bit of an oddity. I do think all those gunners etc getting shot up would be more meaningful if we had any idea who the fuck they were.

Sad lack of Meatball, but nice bit with Lemmons and the kids. I thought one of the kids was a girl, but I guess he's a boy with longer hair? Or are there different kids sometimes?

They actually talked about maybe bombing civilians is bad, but then the bombs were perfectly on target again. Wonder if they'll ever get around to addressing how often that wasn't the case.

Voice over continues completely pointless.

[sovay]

I do think all those gunners etc getting shot up would be more meaningful if we had any idea who the fuck they were.

I think we were supposed to, but none of them had distinctive enough eyebrows.

I thought one of the kids was a girl, but I guess he's a boy with longer hair? Or are there different kids sometimes?

Genuinely not sure. I thought more kids showed up last time, too, but wouldn't swear to anything without a rewatch.

They actually talked about maybe bombing civilians is bad

I appreciated that the pushback came from Egan in obvious revenge mode, so that the audience would not be tipped to settle down to the idea that actually indiscriminate area bombing is fine. (Wouldn't they know about carpet bombing, even without being involved in Hamburg etc.?)

Voice over continues completely pointless.

This is obnoxiously true.

[muccamukk]

They don't really show the gunners etc on the ground very much though, not like the pilots, anyway. We see a bit more of them with Rosie's crew, but Egan's gunners idk if I've ever seen them before in my life! Lemmons and Quinn are the only two EMs I could so far name.

They're really failing to mention the area bombing, or mentioning it as if it's just the RAF that's doing it. Which, to be honest, is kind of what I was expecting to not like about this show, rather than not liking that the first four episodes were technically Not Very Good.

[sovay]

We see a bit more of them with Rosie's crew, but Egan's gunners idk if I've ever seen them before in my life!

Fair! I assumed I'd just failed to recognize them.

They're really failing to mention the area bombing, or mentioning it as if it's just the RAF that's doing it.

Based on the experience of the Dresden firebombing survivor my mother met in the parking lot before the last ice age, I also was expecting the question to be a factor. I will consider it sub-optimal if they just leave it out completely.

[muccamukk]

I may also have failed to recognise them. I do know we haven't gotten non-airplane scenes with the NCOs much/at all so far. The debate about the cow was probably the longest crew interaction I can remember.

Dresden was in the book, in quite a bit of detail, so there's that at least. The show's up to October 1943, so far, and Dresden was February '45. We saw a brief clip of D-Day in the opening credits, so they're at least getting to summer '44?

[wearing_tearing]

They actually talked about maybe bombing civilians is bad, but then the bombs were perfectly on target again.
I appreciated this little bit they decided to include and the sharp contrast of Egan going: so what this is war.

Wonder if they'll ever get around to addressing how often that wasn't the case.
RIGHT?? I'm waiting for a scene where they mess that up.

[partypaprika]

I went into this episode wanting to be a lot more positive in my outlook. And honestly, this episode gave me a lot to work with.

I like that we're seeing Lemmons again. And Crosby's returned! I love getting a look at the headquarters.

I feel like the music did a great job of steadily ratcheting up the tension leading up to the mission to Munster. I'm not sure if I just wasn't paying close enough attention to it in the previous episodes, but I liked the music a lot in this episode.

I liked the flying visuals as well in this episode, especially combined with the music.

Escorts? I feel like this is the first I'm hearing of them. But interesting to know that they had escorts for some portion.

I really liked that we stayed with one ship for a good portion and then a second. I really felt the tension. I think the sound really was great (sorry to keep going on about it, but I felt like it was just so well done).

I think I had a heart attack when Hambone (?) got caught on the door. I totally freaked out. I was prepared for something really gruesome.

Ugh, I knew what was going to happen to She's gonna but it was still so sad. The end scene with the men helping to put together the personal belongings of the men who hadn't come back was very well done.

This was like the aviation equivalent of watching "And Then There were None". This was also the first episode that felt like really getting to see a dogfight. I really think that they should have extended it a little longer.

I really liked Rosenthal as a character and hope we get to follow him a bit as well.

This was a big step up. This was the episode that I really wanted for the second or third episode. It's frustrating that it came in the middle and not earlier, but I'm glad we got it.

[muccamukk]

A lot of the Lemmons scenes were great, too, especially him playing with the kids, and then sending them away when the planes weren't coming back. He's NINETEEN! And all his friends just died. Jesus.

LOVED the music this episode.

The escorts were a whole thing. I'm going from slightly elderly memories, but the feeling was that with so many guns, the b-17s wouldn't NEED fighter escorts since they'd be able to look after themselves (and the RAF was flying at night), so the AAF didn't bother developing any with a longer range. Multiple people warned them that this was going to be a fucking disaster, and it was. After the mission in Part 3, the higher ups put a rush on a long-range fighter (I think the p-51?), but by Part 5, they weren't coming off the line in high enough numbers to do any good.

Also like Rosie!

[sovay]

I liked the flying visuals as well in this episode, especially combined with the music.

The air logistics were really crisp—I still couldn't always tell who had just been dramatically riddled with bullets or flak, but the attrition of the ships was painfully clear, even when it was happening so fast that no one had time to record anything except losses. The music this episode was great.

I was prepared for something really gruesome.

Same! Nice that it was averted, but after the close-up facefuls of shrapnel and flying glass, I wasn't taking any bets!

This was the episode that I really wanted for the second or third episode. It's frustrating that it came in the middle and not earlier, but I'm glad we got it.

Agreed. I hope the rest of the show can keep it up.

[wearing_tearing]

The end scene with the men helping to put together the personal belongings of the men who hadn't come back was very well done.
You mentioned above the music in this ep, but I also really enjoyed how they used silence here! It made it all so grim and heartbreaking, as it should be.

This was like the aviation equivalent of watching "And Then There were None".
Such an apt description.

[sovay]

"The only tree in East Anglia!"

That was like an actual hour of television with dramatic tension and emotional stakes and characters the camera could identify and follow. Crosby gets kicked upstairs to send his friends to die! Rosenthal pilots a bomber like an ace and can hum a memorable klezmer besides! Lemmons remains good with kids! The shots of the bunks and gear of all the men who won't be coming back for them are appropriately somber without being slushy. This may in fact be the first episode in some time where I can remember taking note of specific images as more than plot information: the wall of German fighters, the air full of fragments of falling B-17s. The music was also nicely welded into the clusterfuck and it wasn't all Shepard tones. What took the show so long?

[muccamukk]

Yes, the scene with them coming back was so sweet and funny. It was great contrast to everything going straight to hell. (Though reminds me a bit of the HBO cliche where the minute you see a character being happy about something, you know they're doomed.)

What was the klezmer song?

The only conclusion I have is the change in directors, but I don't have enough data to nail that down yet. The writer is the same. If it works out to be true, I may die mad about giving the A Block to Mr. Dickface.

[sovay]

Yes, the scene with them coming back was so sweet and funny. It was great contrast to everything going straight to hell. (Though reminds me a bit of the HBO cliche where the minute you see a character being happy about something, you know they're doomed.)

The definition of buying the farm! But unlike many previous scenes of theoretical camaraderie, it worked. I cared that they were reunited and happy. And two missions in two days is meat grinder enough already ("Aren't they supposed to rotate the squadrons?" – "Who else have they got?") and then it just gets worse. I didn't come in knowing the history of this bomber group. The scale of the wipeout was effective.

What was the klezmer song?

It was probably cheating to call it klezmer just because it's a Jewish dude on a clarinet, but the little riff that Rosie is humming during the raid is Artie Shaw's "The Chant." In its big-band form, it's a serious earworm. And I loved the character note of the humming because I couldn't tell if he was doing it out of concentration or to steady his own nerves or project reassurance to the rest of his crew, but it felt real: a human quirk. A lot of this episode felt suddenly in focus in a way that the show until then had not.

The only conclusion I have is the change in directors, but I don't have enough data to nail that down yet. The writer is the same. If it works out to be true, I may die mad about giving the A Block to Mr. Dickface.

*looks up director of first four episodes, unknown to me except by name and CV*

Jeez, yeah, potential same.

[wearing_tearing]

This isn't going to be a long comment because I was actually invested in what was going on! A much better episode all around in terms of tension, action, and continuity. There was no confusion aside from me still having a little trouble telling all the white men apart.

I loved that we got some more Lemmons with the boys! Even if his final scene was not a happy one. I also very much enjoyed Rosenthal as a character and what we saw from him here--it was very exciting to watch him pilot and the implications of his team being the only one that came back. I did tear up a little with Croz and the letter, that was really well done.

The preview for next episode also looks really interesting! Finally :D

[muccamukk]

Yes! I'm looking forward to spending more time with Rosie, and possibly not while wearing a mask flying a plane. I've been really liking him so far. An entirely ground-based episode might be a nice change.

[wearing_tearing]

and possibly not while wearing a mask flying a plane.
The novelty! We'll get to see people's faces :D

An entirely ground-based episode might be a nice change.
I think it will be a nice change! I hope it gives us time to connect more with the characters as we get to know them (and what makes them tick) a little better.

[impala_chick]

Finally feeling fannish this episode!! I think because Egan and Crosby's points of views solidified a lot more imo. Also the Egan bravado/pretending he's got it all under control thing has me intrigued. Egan saying he doesn't even feel it!! Not wearing the Jacket Buck hates!! Everyone walking on eggshells around him!!

Also Crosby reading Bubbles' letter literally brought me to tears, and I don't remember crying this early into BoB.

[muccamukk]

Yeah, I think the jacket thing was the first time I was really shippy about Buck Squared or whatever we're calling it.

That scene at the end is so tragic. You know it's coming, and yet... grate use of Chekov's letter.